[Vtigercrm-developers] Discussion about Sidebar in Vtiger 7

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[Vtigercrm-developers] Discussion about Sidebar in Vtiger 7

Stefan Warnat
Hy,

I would like to discuss some topics about the missing sidebar in DetailView of Vtiger 7 and how you solve this "problem".

At first I would do a Pro/Contra list about the sidebar, because I'm not fully sure if it is really a bad decision to remove it.

PRO
  • Missing Sidebar do not require to be loaded on page load, which increase the performance. (I think VT7 have a great performance)
  • The available place for information is much bigger

CONTRA
  • Some type of functions are better be placed within something like a sidebar, because it start some processes or do not belong do "informations"
  • On my 27' screen, the place for information is too big.
    The left and right column are too far away to have a good clarity. But I could understand on default 20' screens it is better.
In any way, I need such function to provide the option to trigger Processes in DetailView. 
I cannot expect a "default" employee of a company know how to use if I hide it behind a button/link.
And I think for the PDFMaker @Matus it is also a must have to get fast access to Templates.

I think we should discuss a solution we share, because any other way would result in a big and wild viewport, where every developer apply his functions on another place.

One idea I had but discard, was to show a combined fixed layer bottom right or top center within this screen. But it will probably overlay information, which is not a solution.

Another idea I had, was to simple "add" a sidebar by javascript, next to the detailview form.
But to make this looking good, a flexbox supporting browser is required and IE < 11 do not support this. (Flexbox is required if it should be a responsive solution)
I think it is looking good.

But one single developer cannot do this, because it is a wasted space for only 1 or 2 modules.
If we could share a JS Function, DB Table, which do this and check if already another module apply this sidebar into the browser, we could implement a powerful sidebar. Extensibility by other plugins and Events in PHP and JavaScript will assure to make it usable by every dev.

@Vtiger Devs: Why not implement the listview sidebar in this way of layout to make a clear separation between list and sidebar. The solution you choose to combine both within one container is confusing.

I'm happy to hear, if such collaboration is possible.

Regards,


_______________________________________________
http://www.vtiger.com/
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Re: Discussion about Sidebar in Vtiger 7

simonetravaglini
Hi stefan,
I try to share my opinion from non technical point of view:

1. some add on, like pdf, should be managed as vtiger ondemand do, with a popup opened after click on a button:
Immagine incorporata 2



Immagine incorporata 1

2. on listview I think you can use sidebar on the left

3. other widget I think you can add in summary view, like in the past version

About image you share i'm not sure it's a good idea. Maybe a solution is that under MORE button you have a workflow voice that open a popup that show you list of WF and button to start them. Or you have an indipendent button for workflow.
I know that there are some widget on old sidebar that were fast to use, but Not sure if add a new sidebar, if not in core system, it's a good idea... Your idea to share with other developer the sidebar is good but not easy to manage, I think. But I want to hear opinion from other developer.




2017-03-16 12:14 GMT+01:00 Stefan Warnat <[hidden email]>:
Hy,

I would like to discuss some topics about the missing sidebar in DetailView of Vtiger 7 and how you solve this "problem".

At first I would do a Pro/Contra list about the sidebar, because I'm not fully sure if it is really a bad decision to remove it.

PRO
  • Missing Sidebar do not require to be loaded on page load, which increase the performance. (I think VT7 have a great performance)
  • The available place for information is much bigger

CONTRA
  • Some type of functions are better be placed within something like a sidebar, because it start some processes or do not belong do "informations"
  • On my 27' screen, the place for information is too big.
    The left and right column are too far away to have a good clarity. But I could understand on default 20' screens it is better.
In any way, I need such function to provide the option to trigger Processes in DetailView. 
I cannot expect a "default" employee of a company know how to use if I hide it behind a button/link.
And I think for the PDFMaker @Matus it is also a must have to get fast access to Templates.

I think we should discuss a solution we share, because any other way would result in a big and wild viewport, where every developer apply his functions on another place.

One idea I had but discard, was to show a combined fixed layer bottom right or top center within this screen. But it will probably overlay information, which is not a solution.

Another idea I had, was to simple "add" a sidebar by javascript, next to the detailview form.
But to make this looking good, a flexbox supporting browser is required and IE < 11 do not support this. (Flexbox is required if it should be a responsive solution)
I think it is looking good.

But one single developer cannot do this, because it is a wasted space for only 1 or 2 modules.
If we could share a JS Function, DB Table, which do this and check if already another module apply this sidebar into the browser, we could implement a powerful sidebar. Extensibility by other plugins and Events in PHP and JavaScript will assure to make it usable by every dev.

@Vtiger Devs: Why not implement the listview sidebar in this way of layout to make a clear separation between list and sidebar. The solution you choose to combine both within one container is confusing.

I'm happy to hear, if such collaboration is possible.

Regards,


_______________________________________________
http://www.vtiger.com/



--
Simone Travaglini
328 5499846
Linkedin: Simone Travaglini


Rispetta l'ambiente: non stampare questa mail se non ti è veramente necessario!

_______________________________________________
http://www.vtiger.com/
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Re: Discussion about Sidebar in Vtiger 7

its4you
Yes, there are some "limitations" without Sidebar in Vtiger 7, like our
Payments extensions show related paymnets with SUM in left sidebar in
vtiger6.

We need to learn/find how to implement it for vtiger7 and make it vtiger
compatible. And this is the reason why License for vtiger 6.x cann't be
transferred into 7.x without additional cost (from our view).

Matus

Dňa 16. 3. 2017 o 13:25 Simone Travaglini napísal(a):

> Hi stefan,
> I try to share my opinion from non technical point of view:
>
> 1. some add on, like pdf, should be managed as vtiger ondemand do, with
> a popup opened after click on a button:
> Immagine incorporata 2
>
>
>
> Immagine incorporata 1
>
> 2. on listview I think you can use sidebar on the left
>
> 3. other widget I think you can add in summary view, like in the past
> version
>
> About image you share i'm not sure it's a good idea. Maybe a solution is
> that under MORE button you have a workflow voice that open a popup that
> show you list of WF and button to start them. Or you have an indipendent
> button for workflow.
> I know that there are some widget on old sidebar that were fast to use,
> but Not sure if add a new sidebar, if not in core system, it's a good
> idea... Your idea to share with other developer the sidebar is good but
> not easy to manage, I think. But I want to hear opinion from other
> developer.
>
>
>
>
> 2017-03-16 12:14 GMT+01:00 Stefan Warnat
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
>     Hy,
>
>     I would like to discuss some topics about the missing sidebar in
>     DetailView of Vtiger 7 and how you solve this "problem".
>
>     At first I would do a Pro/Contra list about the sidebar, because I'm
>     not fully sure if it is really a bad decision to remove it.
>
>     *PRO*
>
>       * Missing Sidebar do not require to be loaded on page load, which
>         increase the performance. (I think VT7 have a great performance)
>       * The available place for information is much bigger
>
>
>     *CONTRA*
>
>       * Some type of functions are better be placed within something
>         like a sidebar, because it start some processes or do not belong
>         do "informations"
>       * On my 27' screen, the place for information is too big.
>         The left and right column are too far away to have a good
>         clarity. But I could understand on default 20' screens it is better.
>
>     In any way, I need such function to provide the option to trigger
>     Processes in DetailView.
>     I cannot expect a "default" employee of a company know how to use if
>     I hide it behind a button/link.
>     And I think for the PDFMaker *@Matus* it is also a must have to get
>     fast access to Templates.
>
>     I think we should discuss a solution we share, because any other way
>     would result in a big and wild viewport, where every developer apply
>     his functions on another place.
>
>     One idea I had but discard, was to show a combined fixed layer
>     bottom right or top center within this screen. But it will probably
>     overlay information, which is not a solution.
>
>     Another idea I had, was to simple "add" a sidebar by javascript,
>     next to the detailview form.
>     But to make this looking good, a flexbox supporting browser is
>     required and IE < 11 do not support this. (Flexbox is required if it
>     should be a responsive solution)
>     A test I created is
>     this: http://redoo.click/stefan/Screen03161200371.png
>     <http://redoo.click/stefan/Screen03161200371.png>
>     I think it is looking good.
>
>     But one single developer cannot do this, because it is a wasted
>     space for only 1 or 2 modules.
>     If we could share a JS Function, DB Table, which do this and check
>     if already another module apply this sidebar into the browser, we
>     could implement a powerful sidebar. Extensibility by other plugins
>     and Events in PHP and JavaScript will assure to make it usable by
>     every dev.
>
>     *@Vtiger Devs*: Why not implement the listview sidebar in this way
>     of layout to make a clear separation between list and sidebar. The
>     solution you choose to combine both within one container is confusing.
>
>     I'm happy to hear, if such collaboration is possible.
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Stefan
>
>     ----
>     *Freelancer@Webdevelopment*
>
>     Web: http://www.stefanwarnat.de
>     Xing: https://www.xing.com/profile/Stefan_Warnat2
>     <https://www.xing.com/profile/Stefan_Warnat2>
>     LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stefan-warnat/6/827/820
>     <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stefan-warnat/6/827/820>
>     eMail: [hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     http://www.vtiger.com/
>
>
>
>
> --
> Simone Travaglini
> 328 5499846
> Linkedin: Simone Travaglini
>
>
> Rispetta l'ambiente: non stampare questa mail se non ti è veramente
> necessario!
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.vtiger.com/
>


_______________________________________________
http://www.vtiger.com/
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Re: Discussion about Sidebar in Vtiger 7

its4you
In reply to this post by Stefan Warnat
I will be happy if this/or another Sidebar will be available in vtiger
7. But we learn to leave without them.


Matus


Dňa 16. 3. 2017 o 12:14 Stefan Warnat napísal(a):

> Hy,
>
> I would like to discuss some topics about the missing sidebar in
> DetailView of Vtiger 7 and how you solve this "problem".
>
> At first I would do a Pro/Contra list about the sidebar, because I'm not
> fully sure if it is really a bad decision to remove it.
>
> *PRO*
>
>   * Missing Sidebar do not require to be loaded on page load, which
>     increase the performance. (I think VT7 have a great performance)
>   * The available place for information is much bigger
>
>
> *CONTRA*
>
>   * Some type of functions are better be placed within something like a
>     sidebar, because it start some processes or do not belong do
>     "informations"
>   * On my 27' screen, the place for information is too big.
>     The left and right column are too far away to have a good clarity.
>     But I could understand on default 20' screens it is better.
>
> In any way, I need such function to provide the option to trigger
> Processes in DetailView.
> I cannot expect a "default" employee of a company know how to use if I
> hide it behind a button/link.
> And I think for the PDFMaker *@Matus* it is also a must have to get fast
> access to Templates.
>
> I think we should discuss a solution we share, because any other way
> would result in a big and wild viewport, where every developer apply his
> functions on another place.
>
> One idea I had but discard, was to show a combined fixed layer bottom
> right or top center within this screen. But it will probably overlay
> information, which is not a solution.
>
> Another idea I had, was to simple "add" a sidebar by javascript, next to
> the detailview form.
> But to make this looking good, a flexbox supporting browser is required
> and IE < 11 do not support this. (Flexbox is required if it should be a
> responsive solution)
> A test I created is
> this: http://redoo.click/stefan/Screen03161200371.png
> <http://redoo.click/stefan/Screen03161200371.png>
> I think it is looking good.
>
> But one single developer cannot do this, because it is a wasted space
> for only 1 or 2 modules.
> If we could share a JS Function, DB Table, which do this and check if
> already another module apply this sidebar into the browser, we could
> implement a powerful sidebar. Extensibility by other plugins and Events
> in PHP and JavaScript will assure to make it usable by every dev.
>
> *@Vtiger Devs*: Why not implement the listview sidebar in this way of
> layout to make a clear separation between list and sidebar. The solution
> you choose to combine both within one container is confusing.
>
> I'm happy to hear, if such collaboration is possible.
>
> Regards,
>
> Stefan
>
> ----
> *Freelancer@Webdevelopment*
>
> Web: http://www.stefanwarnat.de
> Xing: https://www.xing.com/profile/Stefan_Warnat2
> <https://www.xing.com/profile/Stefan_Warnat2>
> LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stefan-warnat/6/827/820
> <http://www.linkedin.com/pub/stefan-warnat/6/827/820>
> eMail: [hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.vtiger.com/
>


_______________________________________________
http://www.vtiger.com/
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Re: Discussion about Sidebar in Vtiger 7

Maximilian von Henkel
In reply to this post by its4you
Imagine Joomla users have to buy the same extension because Joomla changed number? 
Vtiger instead of removing bugs and improving stability, ripping off users and keep fake relation
with developers (feeding them with carrot) who dream that they will get sweet income. 


Maxi





On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:47 PM, IT-Solutions4You <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, there are some "limitations" without Sidebar in Vtiger 7, like our Payments extensions show related paymnets with SUM in left sidebar in vtiger6.

We need to learn/find how to implement it for vtiger7 and make it vtiger compatible. And this is the reason why License for vtiger 6.x cann't be transferred into 7.x without additional cost (from our view).

Matus


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Re: Discussion about Sidebar in Vtiger 7

Matteo Baranzoni-2
@Maxi: almost all joomla commercial extension was selled with limited support (usually 6/12 months). After that if you have issue or joomla update break something you have 2 solution: spend money and get updated module or fix yourself. 


@Stefan: did you check folder /modules/Calendar/partials/ ?
here i see support for SIDEBARLINK and SIDEBARWIDGET and i think that add it to /modules/Vtiger/partials was better solution for keep code clean if vtiger guys accept this changes.

2017-03-24 6:40 GMT+01:00 Maximilian von Henkel <[hidden email]>:
Imagine Joomla users have to buy the same extension because Joomla changed number? 
Vtiger instead of removing bugs and improving stability, ripping off users and keep fake relation
with developers (feeding them with carrot) who dream that they will get sweet income. 


Maxi





On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:47 PM, IT-Solutions4You <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, there are some "limitations" without Sidebar in Vtiger 7, like our Payments extensions show related paymnets with SUM in left sidebar in vtiger6.

We need to learn/find how to implement it for vtiger7 and make it vtiger compatible. And this is the reason why License for vtiger 6.x cann't be transferred into 7.x without additional cost (from our view).

Matus


_______________________________________________
http://www.vtiger.com/


_______________________________________________
http://www.vtiger.com/
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Re: Discussion about Sidebar in Vtiger 7

its4you
In reply to this post by Maximilian von Henkel
Maxi,

vtiger change number from 6.1 to 6.2 then 6.3 later 6.4 and now 6.5 all
our extensions are compatible so our customer don't need buy new License
for new vtiger 6.x version. Now vtiger change the logic how extensions
should works. It's not only change number, we need spent time to learn
it and develop it. Maybe it's better we start using 12 motnhs
Subscription and in this case you can use extension for any vtiger version.

Matus.



Dňa 24. 3. 2017 o 6:40 Maximilian von Henkel napísal(a):

> Imagine Joomla users have to buy the same extension because Joomla
> changed number?
> Vtiger instead of removing bugs and improving stability, ripping off
> users and keep fake relation
> with developers (feeding them with carrot) who dream that they will get
> sweet income.
>
>
> Maxi
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 23, 2017 at 7:47 PM, IT-Solutions4You
> <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Yes, there are some "limitations" without Sidebar in Vtiger 7, like
>     our Payments extensions show related paymnets with SUM in left
>     sidebar in vtiger6.
>
>     We need to learn/find how to implement it for vtiger7 and make it
>     vtiger compatible. And this is the reason why License for vtiger 6.x
>     cann't be transferred into 7.x without additional cost (from our view).
>
>     Matus
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.vtiger.com/
>


_______________________________________________
http://www.vtiger.com/