Build a vTiger Bounty Team

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Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Brian Laughlin
I was wondering if I could get some type of "sponsorship" officially
from vTiger and allow myself and the newly created team to have a title
that would give us some sense of belonging.  I kind of think that I'm
out of place leading this movement without some sense of being official.

Regards,

Brian Laughlin

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: vtigercrm-developers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 49

Send vtigercrm-developers mailing list submissions to
        [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.vtigercrm.com/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of vtigercrm-developers digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: mailing list created (Fathi Boudra)
   2. Re: 4.2.4 Release Schedule (Mike Fedyk)
   3. Re: Why include a SQL file when we don't use it? (Jeff
Kowalczyk)
   4. Re: Why include a SQL file when we don't use it?
      (Michel JACQUEMES)
   5. Re: Why include a SQL file when we don't use it?
      (Sergio A. Kessler)
   6. Anyone working on Postgres support? (Mike Fedyk)
   7. 4.2.4 installer creates tables as MyISAM (Mike Fedyk)
   8. Re: Anyone working on Postgres support? (Allan Bush)
   9. Re: Anyone working on Postgres support? (Mike Fedyk)
  10. Re: 4.2.4 installer creates tables as MyISAM (Mike Fedyk)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:49:50 +0100
From: Fathi Boudra <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] mailing list created
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"

> The new mailing list for commits has been created as mentioned
earlier.
> [hidden email] is the new id.

commits are now redirected to [hidden email]
list.
all (4.x and 5.x) commits go to this list, please use your filter
provided by your email client if you want just a branch.

cheers,

Fathi


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 04:03:28 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 Release Schedule
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Did I say May?  Sorry that should have been *March* 1st.

Mike

Mike Fedyk wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I am planning on releasing 4.2.4rc1 on Friday, so let's get in all of
> the changes that are planned for 4.2.4 before then so we can release
> on May 1st.
>
> Mike
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:51:43 -0500
From: Jeff Kowalczyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we
        don't use it?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

http://vtiger.fosslabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/28

"use adodb schema to install database schema on multiple backends, avoid
.sql files"





------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:55:12 +0100
From: Michel JACQUEMES <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we
        don't use it?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
       
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAA4thkWTj0xGwkwBABTMROMKA
[hidden email]>
       
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have followed with some interest mails on this subject. Having worked
a bit on MsSQL implementation, I will say that use of adodb is probably
better. But doing so you solve multi bases installation but what you
install won't work.
You have to change the code everywhere to avoid static or dynamic
queries builds which are not compatible with other databases. I am not
experienced enough with adodb to say if GetInsertSQL, GetUpdateSQl,
GenID and Insert_ID can solve the problem.

Another way could be to implement something looking like language
support, having subdirectories for each databse and the convenient code
in them.

Having a bit of experience on Delphi and object Pascal, I could also
suggest to use a datasource object in charge of the interface between
displaying data and database access. But maybe that adodb do that
anyway.

Michel

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] De la part de
Jeff Kowalczyk
Envoy??: mercredi 22 f?vrier 2006 14:52
??: [hidden email]
Objet?: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we don't
use it?

http://vtiger.fosslabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/28

"use adodb schema to install database schema on multiple backends, avoid
.sql files"



_______________________________________________
This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still using
your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX enabled,
collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE
instead!
http://zohowriter.com/?vt 




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:48:30 -0300
From: "Sergio A. Kessler" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we
        don't use it?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

mike is rigth that the adodb schema has advantages over sql files, but I
also understand fathi problems WRT packaging

maybe something like this can be done:

php generate_sql.php mysql > vtiger-mysql.sql

and eventually:
php generate_sql.php pgsql > vtiger-pgsql.sql

??

so all the sql files are automatically created ?


On 2/21/06, Mike Crowe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I refer you to my post:
> http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=4535&highlight=
>
> To install from command line:
>         php install.php
> where install.php is:
> <?
> require_once('config.php');
> require_once('connection.php');
> require_once('adodb/adodb.inc.php');
> require_once('adodb/adodb-xmlschema.inc.php');
>
> $conn = ADONewConnection($dbconfig['db_type']);
> $conn->Connect($dbconfig['db_host_name'],$dbconfig['db_user_name'],
> $dbconfig['db_password'],$dbconfig['db_name']);
> $schema = new adoSchema( $conn );
> $schema->SetUpgradeMethod('ALTER');
> $schema->ExecuteInline(true);
> $sql = $schema->ParseSchema( "adodb/DatabaseSchema.xml" ); ?>
>
> To create the XML file, all it takes is:
> $schema = new adoSchema( $conn );
> $t = $schema->ExtractSchema(true);
> (now write $t to the xml file)
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Tuesday 21 February 2006 6:34 pm, Fathi BOUDRA wrote:
> > > I don't understand half of what you just said but using the adodb
> > > xml file for database creation is one of the only thing this
> > > project does right, please continue to use it.
> > >
> > > The adodb xml file it designed to be cross database compatible,
> > > the only thing it depends on is adodb which is already a
> > > requirement, using it will save you tons of "copy and paste" code
> > > "reuse" which just leads to bugs.
> >
> > more simple that you can understand :
> > can you give me a simple command line that i can use to install
> > database on windows and linux ?
> >
> > something that can replace something like :
> > mysql < file.sql
> > _______________________________________________
> > This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
> > using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX

> > enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer
for FREE instead!

> > http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>
> --
> _____________________________________________________
> Cheers!
>
> Mike Crowe
> Sr. Field Sales Engineer
> ELCOM
>
> 3030 Naomi Dr.
> Clover, SC 29710
> Phone: (803) 831-9050
> Fax: (704) 973-7910
>
> [hidden email]
> http://www.elcomsales.com/
> _______________________________________________
> This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for
FREE instead!
> http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:34:23 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] Anyone working on Postgres support?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi,

I'd like to do a release candidate by Friday, feb 24th, so if someone
has any patches for postgres support please get them in the tracker
before Friday so it can be reviewed and integrated.

Mike


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:55:16 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 installer creates tables as
        MyISAM
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Just tried creating a database with the latest 4.2 branch as of rev 3889
and all tables are created as MyISAM tables (the ones that don't support
FK constraints and all those nice DB features).

I'm going to have to do this install with 4.2.3 for now...  Will look at
it in a bit.

Mike


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:45:28 -0800
From: "Allan Bush" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Anyone working on Postgres
        support?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Mike,

I actually have a request out right now for someone to branch 4.2 so I
can work on postgres support (I guess the request isn't all that public
though as it's hidden inside a bug report that's probably not being
read).  I don't think this is something we should try and shoe horn in
last minute as there's a pretty good chance of breaking stuff if there
isn't extensive testing.  That said most of the work has already been
done and I can probably find time tomorrow to merge everything in if
everyone is prepared for the possible issues (I would still prefer to
work in a separate branch).

Allan

On 2/22/06, Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to do a release candidate by Friday, feb 24th, so if someone
> has any patches for postgres support please get them in the tracker
> before Friday so it can be reviewed and integrated.
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for
FREE instead!
> http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:17:24 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Anyone working on Postgres
        support?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

I can make a branch. Though I'd like a consensus on this.

I'd also need to know the name of the branch, could call it
"4.2_postgres" or something...

Comments anyone?

Allan Bush wrote:

>Mike,
>
>I actually have a request out right now for someone to branch 4.2 so I
>can work on postgres support (I guess the request isn't all that public

>though as it's hidden inside a bug report that's probably not being
>read).  I don't think this is something we should try and shoe horn in
>last minute as there's a pretty good chance of breaking stuff if there
>isn't extensive testing.  That said most of the work has already been
>done and I can probably find time tomorrow to merge everything in if
>everyone is prepared for the possible issues (I would still prefer to
>work in a separate branch).
>
>Allan
>
>On 2/22/06, Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'd like to do a release candidate by Friday, feb 24th, so if someone
>>has any patches for postgres support please get them in the tracker
>>before Friday so it can be reviewed and integrated.
>>
>>Mike
>>_______________________________________________
>>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for
FREE instead!
>>http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still using
your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX enabled,
collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE
instead!
>http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>
>  
>


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:23:51 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 installer creates tables as
        MyISAM
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

It's in this changeset:
http://vtiger.fosslabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/changeset/3796

Still investigating...

Mike

Mike Fedyk wrote:

>Just tried creating a database with the latest 4.2 branch as of rev
>3889 and all tables are created as MyISAM tables (the ones that don't
>support FK constraints and all those nice DB features).
>
>I'm going to have to do this install with 4.2.3 for now...  Will look
>at it in a bit.
>
>Mike
>_______________________________________________
>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still using
your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX enabled,
collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE
instead!
>http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>
>  
>


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
vtigercrm-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.vtigercrm.com/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers


End of vtigercrm-developers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 49
***************************************************

_______________________________________________
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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Mike Fedyk
We'll just call you "Bounty Maintainer".

Open source is an "effort"ocracy, so the one that puts in the work
typically gains standing in the community.

Also potentially controversial things like bounty policies will have to
get a consensus.  Basically someone makes an initial proposal and the
ideas morph from there.

I'm willing to leave it up to you, and will help with what I can.

Mike

Brian Laughlin wrote:

>I was wondering if I could get some type of "sponsorship" officially
>from vTiger and allow myself and the newly created team to have a title
>that would give us some sense of belonging.  I kind of think that I'm
>out of place leading this movement without some sense of being official.
>
>Regards,
>
>Brian Laughlin
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
>[hidden email]
>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:28 PM
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: vtigercrm-developers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 49
>
>Send vtigercrm-developers mailing list submissions to
> [hidden email]
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> http://lists.vtigercrm.com/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> [hidden email]
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
> [hidden email]
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
>"Re: Contents of vtigercrm-developers digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: mailing list created (Fathi Boudra)
>   2. Re: 4.2.4 Release Schedule (Mike Fedyk)
>   3. Re: Why include a SQL file when we don't use it? (Jeff
>Kowalczyk)
>   4. Re: Why include a SQL file when we don't use it?
>      (Michel JACQUEMES)
>   5. Re: Why include a SQL file when we don't use it?
>      (Sergio A. Kessler)
>   6. Anyone working on Postgres support? (Mike Fedyk)
>   7. 4.2.4 installer creates tables as MyISAM (Mike Fedyk)
>   8. Re: Anyone working on Postgres support? (Allan Bush)
>   9. Re: Anyone working on Postgres support? (Mike Fedyk)
>  10. Re: 4.2.4 installer creates tables as MyISAM (Mike Fedyk)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:49:50 +0100
>From: Fathi Boudra <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] mailing list created
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"
>
>  
>
>>The new mailing list for commits has been created as mentioned
>>    
>>
>earlier.
>  
>
>>[hidden email] is the new id.
>>    
>>
>
>commits are now redirected to [hidden email]
>list.
>all (4.x and 5.x) commits go to this list, please use your filter
>provided by your email client if you want just a branch.
>
>cheers,
>
>Fathi
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 04:03:28 -0800
>From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 Release Schedule
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Did I say May?  Sorry that should have been *March* 1st.
>
>Mike
>
>Mike Fedyk wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Hi everyone,
>>
>>I am planning on releasing 4.2.4rc1 on Friday, so let's get in all of
>>the changes that are planned for 4.2.4 before then so we can release
>>on May 1st.
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:51:43 -0500
>From: Jeff Kowalczyk <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we
> don't use it?
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>http://vtiger.fosslabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/28
>
>"use adodb schema to install database schema on multiple backends, avoid
>.sql files"
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:55:12 +0100
>From: Michel JACQUEMES <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we
> don't use it?
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID:
>
><!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAA4thkWTj0xGwkwBABTMROMKA
>[hidden email]>
>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>I have followed with some interest mails on this subject. Having worked
>a bit on MsSQL implementation, I will say that use of adodb is probably
>better. But doing so you solve multi bases installation but what you
>install won't work.
>You have to change the code everywhere to avoid static or dynamic
>queries builds which are not compatible with other databases. I am not
>experienced enough with adodb to say if GetInsertSQL, GetUpdateSQl,
>GenID and Insert_ID can solve the problem.
>
>Another way could be to implement something looking like language
>support, having subdirectories for each databse and the convenient code
>in them.
>
>Having a bit of experience on Delphi and object Pascal, I could also
>suggest to use a datasource object in charge of the interface between
>displaying data and database access. But maybe that adodb do that
>anyway.
>
>Michel
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De?: [hidden email]
>[mailto:[hidden email]] De la part de
>Jeff Kowalczyk
>Envoy??: mercredi 22 f?vrier 2006 14:52
>??: [hidden email]
>Objet?: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we don't
>use it?
>
>http://vtiger.fosslabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/28
>
>"use adodb schema to install database schema on multiple backends, avoid
>.sql files"
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still using
>your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX enabled,
>collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE
>instead!
>http://zohowriter.com/?vt 
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:48:30 -0300
>From: "Sergio A. Kessler" <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we
> don't use it?
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>mike is rigth that the adodb schema has advantages over sql files, but I
>also understand fathi problems WRT packaging
>
>maybe something like this can be done:
>
>php generate_sql.php mysql > vtiger-mysql.sql
>
>and eventually:
>php generate_sql.php pgsql > vtiger-pgsql.sql
>
>??
>
>so all the sql files are automatically created ?
>
>
>On 2/21/06, Mike Crowe <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Folks,
>>
>>I refer you to my post:
>>http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=4535&highlight=
>>
>>To install from command line:
>>        php install.php
>>where install.php is:
>><?
>>require_once('config.php');
>>require_once('connection.php');
>>require_once('adodb/adodb.inc.php');
>>require_once('adodb/adodb-xmlschema.inc.php');
>>
>>$conn = ADONewConnection($dbconfig['db_type']);
>>$conn->Connect($dbconfig['db_host_name'],$dbconfig['db_user_name'],
>>$dbconfig['db_password'],$dbconfig['db_name']);
>>$schema = new adoSchema( $conn );
>>$schema->SetUpgradeMethod('ALTER');
>>$schema->ExecuteInline(true);
>>$sql = $schema->ParseSchema( "adodb/DatabaseSchema.xml" ); ?>
>>
>>To create the XML file, all it takes is:
>>$schema = new adoSchema( $conn );
>>$t = $schema->ExtractSchema(true);
>>(now write $t to the xml file)
>>
>>Mike
>>
>>
>>On Tuesday 21 February 2006 6:34 pm, Fathi BOUDRA wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>>I don't understand half of what you just said but using the adodb
>>>>xml file for database creation is one of the only thing this
>>>>project does right, please continue to use it.
>>>>
>>>>The adodb xml file it designed to be cross database compatible,
>>>>the only thing it depends on is adodb which is already a
>>>>requirement, using it will save you tons of "copy and paste" code
>>>>"reuse" which just leads to bugs.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>more simple that you can understand :
>>>can you give me a simple command line that i can use to install
>>>database on windows and linux ?
>>>
>>>something that can replace something like :
>>>mysql < file.sql
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
>>>using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
>>>      
>>>
>
>  
>
>>>enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer
>>>      
>>>
>for FREE instead!
>  
>
>>>http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>>>      
>>>
>>--
>>_____________________________________________________
>>Cheers!
>>
>>Mike Crowe
>>Sr. Field Sales Engineer
>>ELCOM
>>
>>3030 Naomi Dr.
>>Clover, SC 29710
>>Phone: (803) 831-9050
>>Fax: (704) 973-7910
>>
>>[hidden email]
>>http://www.elcomsales.com/
>>_______________________________________________
>>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
>>    
>>
>using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
>enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for
>FREE instead!
>  
>
>>http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:34:23 -0800
>From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
>Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] Anyone working on Postgres support?
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Hi,
>
>I'd like to do a release candidate by Friday, feb 24th, so if someone
>has any patches for postgres support please get them in the tracker
>before Friday so it can be reviewed and integrated.
>
>Mike
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:55:16 -0800
>From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
>Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 installer creates tables as
> MyISAM
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>Just tried creating a database with the latest 4.2 branch as of rev 3889
>and all tables are created as MyISAM tables (the ones that don't support
>FK constraints and all those nice DB features).
>
>I'm going to have to do this install with 4.2.3 for now...  Will look at
>it in a bit.
>
>Mike
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:45:28 -0800
>From: "Allan Bush" <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Anyone working on Postgres
> support?
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID:
> <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Mike,
>
>I actually have a request out right now for someone to branch 4.2 so I
>can work on postgres support (I guess the request isn't all that public
>though as it's hidden inside a bug report that's probably not being
>read).  I don't think this is something we should try and shoe horn in
>last minute as there's a pretty good chance of breaking stuff if there
>isn't extensive testing.  That said most of the work has already been
>done and I can probably find time tomorrow to merge everything in if
>everyone is prepared for the possible issues (I would still prefer to
>work in a separate branch).
>
>Allan
>
>On 2/22/06, Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'd like to do a release candidate by Friday, feb 24th, so if someone
>>has any patches for postgres support please get them in the tracker
>>before Friday so it can be reviewed and integrated.
>>
>>Mike
>>_______________________________________________
>>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
>>    
>>
>using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
>enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for
>FREE instead!
>  
>
>>http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:17:24 -0800
>From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Anyone working on Postgres
> support?
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>I can make a branch. Though I'd like a consensus on this.
>
>I'd also need to know the name of the branch, could call it
>"4.2_postgres" or something...
>
>Comments anyone?
>
>Allan Bush wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Mike,
>>
>>I actually have a request out right now for someone to branch 4.2 so I
>>can work on postgres support (I guess the request isn't all that public
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>though as it's hidden inside a bug report that's probably not being
>>read).  I don't think this is something we should try and shoe horn in
>>last minute as there's a pretty good chance of breaking stuff if there
>>isn't extensive testing.  That said most of the work has already been
>>done and I can probably find time tomorrow to merge everything in if
>>everyone is prepared for the possible issues (I would still prefer to
>>work in a separate branch).
>>
>>Allan
>>
>>On 2/22/06, Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I'd like to do a release candidate by Friday, feb 24th, so if someone
>>>has any patches for postgres support please get them in the tracker
>>>before Friday so it can be reviewed and integrated.
>>>
>>>Mike
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
>>>      
>>>
>using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
>enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for
>FREE instead!
>  
>
>>>http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still using
>>    
>>
>your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX enabled,
>collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE
>instead!
>  
>
>>http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:23:51 -0800
>From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
>Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 installer creates tables as
> MyISAM
>To: [hidden email]
>Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>
>It's in this changeset:
>http://vtiger.fosslabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/changeset/3796
>
>Still investigating...
>
>Mike
>
>Mike Fedyk wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Just tried creating a database with the latest 4.2 branch as of rev
>>3889 and all tables are created as MyISAM tables (the ones that don't
>>support FK constraints and all those nice DB features).
>>
>>I'm going to have to do this install with 4.2.3 for now...  Will look
>>at it in a bit.
>>
>>Mike
>>_______________________________________________
>>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still using
>>    
>>
>your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX enabled,
>collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE
>instead!
>  
>
>>http://zohowriter.com/?vt
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>vtigercrm-developers mailing list
>[hidden email]
>http://lists.vtigercrm.com/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers
>
>
>End of vtigercrm-developers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 49
>***************************************************
>
>_______________________________________________
>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE instead!
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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Graham Anderson-3
In reply to this post by Brian Laughlin
Hi Brian (and all)
 
I am not sure what the discussion about Bounty refers to... is this the start of something that will see a change in direction and policy for vTiger, through the backdoor?
 
I will spend some time looking through the posts that I have missed over the last three weeks, from being away, so that our organisation and "development team" (yes there are a number of us all pulling together for the future), can be sure what we are getting into...
 
Graham

________________________________

From: [hidden email] on behalf of Brian Laughlin
Sent: Fri 24/02/2006 07:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] Build a vTiger Bounty Team



I was wondering if I could get some type of "sponsorship" officially
from vTiger and allow myself and the newly created team to have a title
that would give us some sense of belonging.  I kind of think that I'm
out of place leading this movement without some sense of being official.

Regards,

Brian Laughlin

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
[hidden email]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: vtigercrm-developers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 49

Send vtigercrm-developers mailing list submissions to
        [hidden email]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.vtigercrm.com/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers 
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [hidden email]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [hidden email]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of vtigercrm-developers digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re: mailing list created (Fathi Boudra)
   2. Re: 4.2.4 Release Schedule (Mike Fedyk)
   3. Re: Why include a SQL file when we don't use      it? (Jeff
Kowalczyk)
   4. Re: Why include a SQL file when we don't  use     it?
      (Michel JACQUEMES)
   5. Re: Why include a SQL file when we don't use      it?
      (Sergio A. Kessler)
   6. Anyone working on Postgres support? (Mike Fedyk)
   7. 4.2.4 installer creates tables as MyISAM (Mike Fedyk)
   8. Re: Anyone working on Postgres support? (Allan Bush)
   9. Re: Anyone working on Postgres support? (Mike Fedyk)
  10. Re: 4.2.4 installer creates tables as MyISAM (Mike Fedyk)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:49:50 +0100
From: Fathi Boudra <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] mailing list created
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="utf-8"

> The new mailing list for commits has been created as mentioned
earlier.
> [hidden email] is the new id.

commits are now redirected to [hidden email]
list.
all (4.x and 5.x) commits go to this list, please use your filter
provided by your email client if you want just a branch.

cheers,

Fathi


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 04:03:28 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 Release Schedule
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Did I say May?  Sorry that should have been *March* 1st.

Mike

Mike Fedyk wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> I am planning on releasing 4.2.4rc1 on Friday, so let's get in all of
> the changes that are planned for 4.2.4 before then so we can release
> on May 1st.
>
> Mike
>



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 08:51:43 -0500
From: Jeff Kowalczyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we
        don't use       it?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

http://vtiger.fosslabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/28 

"use adodb schema to install database schema on multiple backends, avoid
.sql files"





------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:55:12 +0100
From: Michel JACQUEMES <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we
        don't   use     it?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
       
<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAA4thkWTj0xGwkwBABTMROMKA
[hidden email]>
       
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have followed with some interest mails on this subject. Having worked
a bit on MsSQL implementation, I will say that use of adodb is probably
better. But doing so you solve multi bases installation but what you
install won't work.
You have to change the code everywhere to avoid static or dynamic
queries builds which are not compatible with other databases. I am not
experienced enough with adodb to say if GetInsertSQL, GetUpdateSQl,
GenID and Insert_ID can solve the problem.

Another way could be to implement something looking like language
support, having subdirectories for each databse and the convenient code
in them.

Having a bit of experience on Delphi and object Pascal, I could also
suggest to use a datasource object in charge of the interface between
displaying data and database access. But maybe that adodb do that
anyway.

Michel

-----Message d'origine-----
De?: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] De la part de
Jeff Kowalczyk
Envoy??: mercredi 22 f?vrier 2006 14:52
??: [hidden email]
Objet?: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we don't
use it?

http://vtiger.fosslabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/ticket/28 

"use adodb schema to install database schema on multiple backends, avoid
.sql files"



_______________________________________________
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collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:48:30 -0300
From: "Sergio A. Kessler" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Why include a SQL file when we
        don't use       it?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

mike is rigth that the adodb schema has advantages over sql files, but I
also understand fathi problems WRT packaging

maybe something like this can be done:

php generate_sql.php mysql > vtiger-mysql.sql

and eventually:
php generate_sql.php pgsql > vtiger-pgsql.sql

??

so all the sql files are automatically created ?


On 2/21/06, Mike Crowe <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Folks,
>
> I refer you to my post:
> http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=4535&highlight= 
>
> To install from command line:
>         php install.php
> where install.php is:
> <?
> require_once('config.php');
> require_once('connection.php');
> require_once('adodb/adodb.inc.php');
> require_once('adodb/adodb-xmlschema.inc.php');
>
> $conn = ADONewConnection($dbconfig['db_type']);
> $conn->Connect($dbconfig['db_host_name'],$dbconfig['db_user_name'],
> $dbconfig['db_password'],$dbconfig['db_name']);
> $schema = new adoSchema( $conn );
> $schema->SetUpgradeMethod('ALTER');
> $schema->ExecuteInline(true);
> $sql = $schema->ParseSchema( "adodb/DatabaseSchema.xml" ); ?>
>
> To create the XML file, all it takes is:
> $schema = new adoSchema( $conn );
> $t = $schema->ExtractSchema(true);
> (now write $t to the xml file)
>
> Mike
>
>
> On Tuesday 21 February 2006 6:34 pm, Fathi BOUDRA wrote:
> > > I don't understand half of what you just said but using the adodb
> > > xml file for database creation is one of the only thing this
> > > project does right, please continue to use it.
> > >
> > > The adodb xml file it designed to be cross database compatible,
> > > the only thing it depends on is adodb which is already a
> > > requirement, using it will save you tons of "copy and paste" code
> > > "reuse" which just leads to bugs.
> >
> > more simple that you can understand :
> > can you give me a simple command line that i can use to install
> > database on windows and linux ?
> >
> > something that can replace something like :
> > mysql < file.sql
> > _______________________________________________
> > This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
> > using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX

> > enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer
for FREE instead!

> > http://zohowriter.com/?vt 
>
> --
> _____________________________________________________
> Cheers!
>
> Mike Crowe
> Sr. Field Sales Engineer
> ELCOM
>
> 3030 Naomi Dr.
> Clover, SC 29710
> Phone: (803) 831-9050
> Fax: (704) 973-7910
>
> [hidden email]
> http://www.elcomsales.com/ 
> _______________________________________________
> This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for
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>



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 14:34:23 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] Anyone working on Postgres support?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Hi,

I'd like to do a release candidate by Friday, feb 24th, so if someone
has any patches for postgres support please get them in the tracker
before Friday so it can be reviewed and integrated.

Mike


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 15:55:16 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 installer creates tables as
        MyISAM
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Just tried creating a database with the latest 4.2 branch as of rev 3889
and all tables are created as MyISAM tables (the ones that don't support
FK constraints and all those nice DB features).

I'm going to have to do this install with 4.2.3 for now...  Will look at
it in a bit.

Mike


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 21:45:28 -0800
From: "Allan Bush" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Anyone working on Postgres
        support?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Mike,

I actually have a request out right now for someone to branch 4.2 so I
can work on postgres support (I guess the request isn't all that public
though as it's hidden inside a bug report that's probably not being
read).  I don't think this is something we should try and shoe horn in
last minute as there's a pretty good chance of breaking stuff if there
isn't extensive testing.  That said most of the work has already been
done and I can probably find time tomorrow to merge everything in if
everyone is prepared for the possible issues (I would still prefer to
work in a separate branch).

Allan

On 2/22/06, Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'd like to do a release candidate by Friday, feb 24th, so if someone
> has any patches for postgres support please get them in the tracker
> before Friday so it can be reviewed and integrated.
>
> Mike
> _______________________________________________
> This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for
FREE instead!
> http://zohowriter.com/?vt 
>



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 22:17:24 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Anyone working on Postgres
        support?
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

I can make a branch. Though I'd like a consensus on this.

I'd also need to know the name of the branch, could call it
"4.2_postgres" or something...

Comments anyone?

Allan Bush wrote:

>Mike,
>
>I actually have a request out right now for someone to branch 4.2 so I
>can work on postgres support (I guess the request isn't all that public

>though as it's hidden inside a bug report that's probably not being
>read).  I don't think this is something we should try and shoe horn in
>last minute as there's a pretty good chance of breaking stuff if there
>isn't extensive testing.  That said most of the work has already been
>done and I can probably find time tomorrow to merge everything in if
>everyone is prepared for the possible issues (I would still prefer to
>work in a separate branch).
>
>Allan
>
>On 2/22/06, Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I'd like to do a release candidate by Friday, feb 24th, so if someone
>>has any patches for postgres support please get them in the tracker
>>before Friday so it can be reviewed and integrated.
>>
>>Mike
>>_______________________________________________
>>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still
using your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX
enabled, collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for
FREE instead!
>>http://zohowriter.com/?vt 
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still using
your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX enabled,
collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE
instead!
>http://zohowriter.com/?vt 
>
>  
>


------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2006 00:23:51 -0800
From: Mike Fedyk <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] 4.2.4 installer creates tables as
        MyISAM
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

It's in this changeset:
http://vtiger.fosslabs.com/cgi-bin/trac.cgi/changeset/3796 

Still investigating...

Mike

Mike Fedyk wrote:

>Just tried creating a database with the latest 4.2 branch as of rev
>3889 and all tables are created as MyISAM tables (the ones that don't
>support FK constraints and all those nice DB features).
>
>I'm going to have to do this install with 4.2.3 for now...  Will look
>at it in a bit.
>
>Mike
>_______________________________________________
>This vtiger.com email is sponsored by: Zoho Writer. Are you still using
your desktop word processor for typing documents? Try the AJAX enabled,
collaboration-friendly online word processor, Zoho Writer for FREE
instead!
>http://zohowriter.com/?vt 
>
>  
>


------------------------------

_______________________________________________
vtigercrm-developers mailing list
[hidden email]
http://lists.vtigercrm.com/mailman/listinfo/vtigercrm-developers 


End of vtigercrm-developers Digest, Vol 2, Issue 49
***************************************************

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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Mike Fedyk
See:
http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=5150
http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=5549
http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=5765
http://forums.vtiger.com/viewforum.php?f=66

Graham Anderson wrote:

>Hi Brian (and all)
>
>I am not sure what the discussion about Bounty refers to... is this the start of something that will see a change in direction and policy for vTiger, through the backdoor?
>  
>

I'd call it marketing a fund raising system for developers.  Right now,
Brian is the one interested in maintaining this portion of the community
and wants a title.  So "Bounty Maintainer" seems fair.

>
>I will spend some time looking through the posts that I have missed over the last three weeks, from being away, so that our organisation and "development team" (yes there are a number of us all pulling together for the future), can be sure what we are getting into...
>  
>

Brian is in my local area and contacted me a few weeks ago showing
interest in helping the vtiger community.  I don't want anyone to think
any back room deals are being made, so if you have any questions they
will be answered publicly.

Mike
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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Jamie Jackson-2
I'd call it marketing a fund raising system for developers.  Right now,
Brian is the one interested in maintaining this portion of the community
and wants a title.  So "Bounty Maintainer" seems fair.

Hiya Mike,

I don't you to take this the wrong way, but on the surface it would seem you are skectical<sp> of this bounty system?

I am not sure why you would call it a fund raising system, although it does put money in the developers pocket that steps up and helps us non-programmers out with features our company needs.   I wouldn't call it a fund raising system.  It just seems like a not so nice way of naming it.

We all understand that several things are true:

1.  The Core vTiger group is busy with 5.0
2.  You are busy with maintaining 4.2x
3.  We non-programmers need features that aren't in the current system
4.  There are many people that would want the same features, so sharing the costs of said features is a benefit.

I believe a bounty system is a good thing, and a needed thing.  I am sorry if I misunderstood your stance, but it just seemed on surface that you didn't like this idea.

Also, Brian didn't ask for a title for the sake of having one, I believe he asked for the vTiger core group to get behind the idea of a bounty system and let the community know they are supportive of the idea.

Again, I am sorry if I misunderstood you, I just thought I would give you my input.

Thanks!

Jamie



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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Mike Fedyk
Jamie Jackson wrote:

> I'd call it marketing a fund raising system for developers.  Right now,
>
>     Brian is the one interested in maintaining this portion of the
>     community
>     and wants a title.  So "Bounty Maintainer" seems fair.
>
>
> Hiya Mike,

Hi Jamie,

>
> I don't you to take this the wrong way, but on the surface it would
> seem you are skectical<sp> of this bounty system?

http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=5150

I am for a bounty system.

>
> I am not sure why you would call it a fund raising system, although it
> does put money in the developers pocket that steps up and helps us
> non-programmers out with features our company needs.   I wouldn't call
> it a fund raising system.  It just seems like a not so nice way of
> naming it.


I don't think anything is wrong with a bounty system for vtiger.  What I
am doing is replying to a fellow developer that feels something is
happening behind closed doors.  If I brought up something like that and
they didn't acknowledge it and give me a straight answer, I wouldn't
believe them.

One part I am skeptical about is this "Bounty Team" thing.  One thing I
have learned is not to count anything until you see it, and it doesn't
align with the open source meritocracy (what I like to call an
"effort"ocracy) concept where you put in the work before getting
recognition.

Maybe it's just a different management style, but I see it as marketing
to get them to do what you want.  And I am inherently skeptical of
marketing.

>
> We all understand that several things are true:
>
> 1.  The Core vTiger group is busy with 5.0
> 2.  You are busy with maintaining 4.2x
> 3.  We non-programmers need features that aren't in the current system
> 4.  There are many people that would want the same features, so
> sharing the costs of said features is a benefit.
>
> I believe a bounty system is a good thing, and a needed thing.  I am
> sorry if I misunderstood your stance, but it just seemed on surface
> that you didn't like this idea.
>
> Also, Brian didn't ask for a title for the sake of having one, I
> believe he asked for the vTiger core group to get behind the idea of a
> bounty system and let the community know they are supportive of the idea.


I think the core vtiger team has already endorsed the first steps in the
bounty system by creating a bounty forum and replying positively in the
above linked forum topic.

Also I think the request comes from a misunderstanding of the community
process.  If there is a need you fill that need and titles come later.  
Nobody has full control of anything in the OSS community.  If I make a
bad announcement or a bad commit I'll get called on it.

>
> Again, I am sorry if I misunderstood you, I just thought I would give
> you my input.

Not a problem.  And it looks like this your first post to the
developer's mailing list.

Welcome.

Mike
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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Graham Anderson-3
In reply to this post by Brian Laughlin
Ok All
 
I think my problem is, I don't understand the bounty thing... how it works and how anyone (and I do mean ANYONE) can get involved.
 
Perhaps someone can take a moment to outline the way that this will pan out, over time, so that we can agree some ground rules, or disagree and make our comments public, for wider debate.
 
I would really appreciate an umbrella overview of what is intended and expected to be involved.
 
Regards
 
Graham

________________________________

From: [hidden email] on behalf of Mike Fedyk
Sent: Sat 25/02/2006 17:37
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Build a vTiger Bounty Team



Jamie Jackson wrote:

> I'd call it marketing a fund raising system for developers.  Right now,
>
>     Brian is the one interested in maintaining this portion of the
>     community
>     and wants a title.  So "Bounty Maintainer" seems fair.
>
>
> Hiya Mike,

Hi Jamie,

>
> I don't you to take this the wrong way, but on the surface it would
> seem you are skectical<sp> of this bounty system?

http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=5150 

I am for a bounty system.

>
> I am not sure why you would call it a fund raising system, although it
> does put money in the developers pocket that steps up and helps us
> non-programmers out with features our company needs.   I wouldn't call
> it a fund raising system.  It just seems like a not so nice way of
> naming it.


I don't think anything is wrong with a bounty system for vtiger.  What I
am doing is replying to a fellow developer that feels something is
happening behind closed doors.  If I brought up something like that and
they didn't acknowledge it and give me a straight answer, I wouldn't
believe them.

One part I am skeptical about is this "Bounty Team" thing.  One thing I
have learned is not to count anything until you see it, and it doesn't
align with the open source meritocracy (what I like to call an
"effort"ocracy) concept where you put in the work before getting
recognition.

Maybe it's just a different management style, but I see it as marketing
to get them to do what you want.  And I am inherently skeptical of
marketing.

>
> We all understand that several things are true:
>
> 1.  The Core vTiger group is busy with 5.0
> 2.  You are busy with maintaining 4.2x
> 3.  We non-programmers need features that aren't in the current system
> 4.  There are many people that would want the same features, so
> sharing the costs of said features is a benefit.
>
> I believe a bounty system is a good thing, and a needed thing.  I am
> sorry if I misunderstood your stance, but it just seemed on surface
> that you didn't like this idea.
>
> Also, Brian didn't ask for a title for the sake of having one, I
> believe he asked for the vTiger core group to get behind the idea of a
> bounty system and let the community know they are supportive of the idea.

I think the core vtiger team has already endorsed the first steps in the
bounty system by creating a bounty forum and replying positively in the
above linked forum topic.

Also I think the request comes from a misunderstanding of the community
process.  If there is a need you fill that need and titles come later.  
Nobody has full control of anything in the OSS community.  If I make a
bad announcement or a bad commit I'll get called on it.

>
> Again, I am sorry if I misunderstood you, I just thought I would give
> you my input.

Not a problem.  And it looks like this your first post to the
developer's mailing list.

Welcome.

Mike
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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Jamie Jackson-2
Hello Graham,


Here is how I see it, and this is Off the Top of my Head ROUGH draft....


1.  Someone wants a feature that isn't currently avaliable.  It could be something that the CORE really should have, OR it could that only a few users could use.

2.  We go to a "Bounty Place" currently hosted in the forums, but at some point and time I would like to see it on a system similar to scriptlance.

3.  Someone would post a feature they want/need with their Specs and how much they are looking for pay for they part of the bounty.

4.  Other people would post that they are interested in joining this Bounty and what they would be willing to pay for their portion of the Bounty and any additional Specs they would like to see.

5.  After a period of time, when enough interest is in the Bounty, or Enough money has been raised to casue interest from a Developer type, or it is seen that the feature isn't "worthy" of a Bounty and if I want it, I have to hire someone outright for it, then the discussion starts.

6.  Everyone gets their input, the users that have "agreed" to the Bounty, which are the people fronting the money, and the developer/developers and everyone agrees what can and will be done and a timeline for it.

7.  The people the want the Bounty will put the money up in escrow, perferably into the hands of someone at vTiger.   They will hold the funds until the project is done, and everyone is in agreement that the project has done what was agreed upon.

8.  vTiger, which has the funds will keep their portion, to help them offset their expensives and help them with more vTiger developement (not sure what this precentage is 5%?  10%?   I don't know, that needs to be worked out.

9.  The rest of the fund are released to the developer/developers and they get paid.   The developer/developers release the code to the people that paid the bounty.



In theory that is how I see it working.   There are many things to clear up.   Like:

a. What happens with the code then?
b. Who owns it?
c. What if it's something really helpful and should be in the core?
d. How do we justify a few people paying so all the others can sit back and reap the rewards without fronting any money?
e. What about a dispute?
f. What is the people that want the feature can't agree on exactly what they want?


On my opinion, for the above options, I would address a few things this way:

a/b. I think it should be the property of the people that paid for it until the 2nd major release after it's finished

c/d.  If it's something that the core really needs, then I think it should be discussed with the people that bought it and see if they want to release it to the community right away.   If not, then it will be released to the community after the 2nd major release after the project was done.   That way it's a trickle effect, if someone wants something now, they pay for it, if not they can wait and get it in the future.  

This way, people can't not ante up if they want something, because they won't get it for a while, but on the other hand, the vTiger team would benefit in later releases because this would add features that are already coded to future versions.

e. I think the vTiger team only should have final say.   They are unbasised and I know they will be fair.

f.  I think if we can't agree on the terms, then the bounty isn't started, finished.   Over time, maybe the minds of many can meet in the middle....  until then nothing gets done.

This is how I see it, others may see it differently or have something to add.

Also, I agree with mike in that I don't think we need a Team for this, other than the vTiger team.   I am sure all of us will pitch in and help out however we can.   I think what Brian was thinking about was when we get a system in place <like scriptlance> other than the forums, we might need people then to help run that system.


I have an will help the vTiger team with or without title.   My company gives me enough hats to wear, I don't need another one.  :)


Jamie


On 2/25/06, Graham Anderson <[hidden email]> wrote:
Ok All

I think my problem is, I don't understand the bounty thing... how it works and how anyone (and I do mean ANYONE) can get involved.

Perhaps someone can take a moment to outline the way that this will pan out, over time, so that we can agree some ground rules, or disagree and make our comments public, for wider debate.

I would really appreciate an umbrella overview of what is intended and expected to be involved.

Regards

Graham

________________________________

From: [hidden email] on behalf of Mike Fedyk
Sent: Sat 25/02/2006 17:37
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Build a vTiger Bounty Team



Jamie Jackson wrote:

> I'd call it marketing a fund raising system for developers.  Right now,
>
>     Brian is the one interested in maintaining this portion of the
>     community
>     and wants a title.  So "Bounty Maintainer" seems fair.
>
>
> Hiya Mike,

Hi Jamie,

>
> I don't you to take this the wrong way, but on the surface it would
> seem you are skectical<sp> of this bounty system?

http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=5150

I am for a bounty system.

>
> I am not sure why you would call it a fund raising system, although it
> does put money in the developers pocket that steps up and helps us
> non-programmers out with features our company needs.   I wouldn't call
> it a fund raising system.  It just seems like a not so nice way of
> naming it.


I don't think anything is wrong with a bounty system for vtiger.  What I
am doing is replying to a fellow developer that feels something is
happening behind closed doors.  If I brought up something like that and
they didn't acknowledge it and give me a straight answer, I wouldn't
believe them.

One part I am skeptical about is this "Bounty Team" thing.  One thing I
have learned is not to count anything until you see it, and it doesn't
align with the open source meritocracy (what I like to call an
"effort"ocracy) concept where you put in the work before getting
recognition.

Maybe it's just a different management style, but I see it as marketing
to get them to do what you want.  And I am inherently skeptical of
marketing.

>
> We all understand that several things are true:
>
> 1.  The Core vTiger group is busy with 5.0
> 2.  You are busy with maintaining 4.2x
> 3.  We non-programmers need features that aren't in the current system
> 4.  There are many people that would want the same features, so
> sharing the costs of said features is a benefit.
>
> I believe a bounty system is a good thing, and a needed thing.  I am
> sorry if I misunderstood your stance, but it just seemed on surface
> that you didn't like this idea.
>
> Also, Brian didn't ask for a title for the sake of having one, I
> believe he asked for the vTiger core group to get behind the idea of a
> bounty system and let the community know they are supportive of the idea.


I think the core vtiger team has already endorsed the first steps in the
bounty system by creating a bounty forum and replying positively in the
above linked forum topic.

Also I think the request comes from a misunderstanding of the community
process.  If there is a need you fill that need and titles come later.
Nobody has full control of anything in the OSS community.  If I make a
bad announcement or a bad commit I'll get called on it.

>
> Again, I am sorry if I misunderstood you, I just thought I would give
> you my input.

Not a problem.  And it looks like this your first post to the
developer's mailing list.

Welcome.

Mike
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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Joe Stewart
In reply to this post by Graham Anderson-3
On Sat, Feb 25, 2006 at 07:22:12PM -0000, Graham Anderson wrote:
> Ok All
>  
> I think my problem is, I don't understand the bounty thing... how it works and how anyone (and I do mean ANYONE) can get involved.
>  
> Perhaps someone can take a moment to outline the way that this will pan out, over time, so that we can agree some ground rules, or disagree and make our comments public, for wider debate.
>  
> I would really appreciate an umbrella overview of what is intended and expected to be involved.
>  

If you aren't familiar with bounty systems, I suggest looking at
launchpad.net.

        https://launchpad.net/bounties

A bounty system is nice in that many people can add small amounts till
there are enough funds to make it worthwhile for a developer that
otherwise didn't have enough of an itch to scratch.

I still don't really understand why we don't just use the launchpad
system.  It would save maintenance and development on some back-end that
doesn't directly relate to vtiger.  Launchpad also helps communicate
from the distributions and the project.

Faithi can probably chime in more about the launchpad bounties
and service.

        https://launchpad.net/bounties/vtiger-universe

Wouldn't it make sense to add vtiger as a launchpad project anyway?  
Just for the added benefit of communication with the distributions (
debian, Ubuntu, fink, etc) and translation services.


Joe


> Regards
>  
> Graham
>

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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Brian Laughlin
In reply to this post by Brian Laughlin
------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 19:22:12 -0000
From: "Graham Anderson" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Vtigercrm-developers] Build a vTiger Bounty Team
To: <[hidden email]>
Message-ID:
       
<[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Ok All
 
I think my problem is, I don't understand the bounty thing... how it
works and how anyone (and I do mean ANYONE) can get involved.
 
Perhaps someone can take a moment to outline the way that this will pan
out, over time, so that we can agree some ground rules, or disagree and
make our comments public, for wider debate.

I would really appreciate an umbrella overview of what is intended and
expected to be involved.
 
Regards
 
Graham


Hello Graham,

I don't want to assert that I am some type of Bounty guru.  There are
discussions that you can already find in the forum.  Please look at the
flowchart attached and provide your feedback.

http://forums.vtiger.com/viewtopic.php?t=5549&highlight=bounty


A simple poll a while back seemed that it would an accepted practice in
the community.  I would be happy to discuss and debate this so that
something better will evolve.  Constructive discord is always healthy.
That would probably help with more participation.

Regards,

Brian Laughlin


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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Brian Laughlin
In reply to this post by Brian Laughlin
I'm not some egotistical person that is looking for a title.  Jamie is
right, I actually want to have a group of people from the community that
the vTiger core team recognizes.  Without their blessing I am not
interested in spending the time to organize this, there are other ways
to accomplish the same task.

Without a functioning team this will go nowhere.  Too many things to do
with no accountability or buy in.

I think it is also a good idea to recognize people that step up and
champion a cause.  Most importantly, when dealing with money there has
to be clear credibility with the people most involved.

Regards,

Brian Laughlin  


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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Jamie Jackson-2
In reply to this post by Joe Stewart
If you aren't familiar with bounty systems, I suggest looking atlaunchpad.net.

        https://launchpad.net/bounties

A bounty system is nice in that many people can add small amounts till
there are enough funds to make it worthwhile for a developer that
otherwise didn't have enough of an itch to scratch.

I still don't really understand why we don't just use the launchpad
system.  It would save maintenance and development on some back-end that
doesn't directly relate to vtiger.  Launchpad also helps communicate
from the distributions and the project.

Faithi can probably chime in more about the launchpad bounties
and service.

        https://launchpad.net/bounties/vtiger-universe

Wouldn't it make sense to add vtiger as a launchpad project anyway?
Just for the added benefit of communication with the distributions (
debian, Ubuntu, fink, etc) and translation services.


Joe




I think you have a good point.   To start with we could use the lauchpad service as our meeting ground.   If this takes off, then maybe we can look at creating a system.


We need people to agree to using launchpad, and then we need to set up the flow of how things would work.   What percentage will the vTiger team get?  

Also, using lauchpad, do they have a system in place to place funds in escrow and hold them until work in complete?   For accepting payment?

Other than launchpad, are there any other suggestions for systems to use?  Anyone?

Jamie






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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Brian Laughlin
In reply to this post by Brian Laughlin

Jamie stated:

In theory that is how I see it working.   There are many things to clear
up.   Like:

a. What happens with the code then?
b. Who owns it?
c. What if it's something really helpful and should be in the core?
d. How do we justify a few people paying so all the others can sit back
and
reap the rewards without fronting any money?
e. What about a dispute?
f. What is the people that want the feature can't agree on exactly what
they
want?


On my opinion, for the above options, I would address a few things this
way:

a/b. I think it should be the property of the people that paid for it
until
the 2nd major release after it's finished

c/d.  If it's something that the core really needs, then I think it
should
be discussed with the people that bought it and see if they want to
release
it to the community right away.   If not, then it will be released to
the
community after the 2nd major release after the project was done.   That
way
it's a trickle effect, if someone wants something now, they pay for it,
if
not they can wait and get it in the future.

This way, people can't not ante up if they want something, because they
won't get it for a while, but on the other hand, the vTiger team would
benefit in later releases because this would add features that are
already
coded to future versions.

e. I think the vTiger team only should have final say.   They are
unbasised
and I know they will be fair.

f.  I think if we can't agree on the terms, then the bounty isn't
started,
finished.   Over time, maybe the minds of many can meet in the
middle....
until then nothing gets done.

This is how I see it, others may see it differently or have something to
add.

Also, I agree with mike in that I don't think we need a Team for this,
other
than the vTiger team.   I am sure all of us will pitch in and help out
however we can.   I think what Brian was thinking about was when we get
a
system in place <like scriptlance> other than the forums, we might need
people then to help run that system.


I have an will help the vTiger team with or without title.   My company
gives me enough hats to wear, I don't need another one.  :)

Jamie
-------------

Jamie, that was well thought out.  I personally would be a little more
liberal with making code available.  I think testing and feedback would
be great value that the community could reciprocate.  I guess it would
depend on who paid and the extend of the feature(s).  Still a very valid
point that needs to be worked out.

I think one point that I brought up can not be overlooked is that we
should also increase our developer pool.  Just because someone says that
they can do something doesn't mean that it will be done correctly or
that they are even good at it.  

Poorly written code will cause a number of problems.  Also, I would
anticipate that the good and active coders may already be strapped.  So
people requesting features that are not in alignment with the
development path of these coders won't have a chance.

I disagree with the only team needed is the vTiger team.  I haven't seen
active discussion from the vTiger team about bounties.  They probably
have enough to do, plus it may come across as self serving.  With the
recent drama of SugarCRM settling, I could see caution being exercised
here.  I think it's healthy to have or appear to have some separation
from bounties if you're on the core team.

Re: Titles & Team.  Translate that to Credibility & People that will
stick to a process.  With a down load rate that exceeds 10,000 per month
we could anticipate an increase in community participation.  Jamie you
are an active poster.  But how does someone new know who Jamie is or
Brian or guest for that matter?  3 months from now when a lot of things
have been worked out how will anything said by you, for example have any
perceptive to a new user.  Well it won't.  Also, if you buy into growing
the developer pool of talent how would someone do that with little
credibility (i.e. advocated by the vTiger community)?  It would be very
hard.

As far as having people stick to a process (Team), I would like to know
if people I'm sorting issues out with are there for only their pet
projects or have a greater motivation to grow bounties into a
functioning system.  I personally am interested in both, but have a
growing commitment for the latter.  I would like to be working with
others that may share that commitment.  The very least you can have are
clear expectations and interpret correctly when someone says, "I want to
help."

Thanks Jamie.  I really appreciate your views.

Brian Laughlin


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Re: Build a vTiger Bounty Team

Richie-4
In reply to this post by Jamie Jackson-2
Hello!

Brian, we have no issues with you being the bounty maintainer.
We like the effort but are not really clear of our role.
I have read the threads but I am still not sure as to what is 
expected of us.

Would it be proper to have a test bounty to see if we can have a demo
thing on so that all concerned get the idea?
We could have a set of fixed users each giving say $1 or something for 
some feature. That, will explain a lot.

Graham, I am not clear of any policy change in vTiger because of this.
The idea is to get an effortocracy on wherein the community gains the most
at the least expense. vTiger team standsby this in spirit.

As mentioned above though, we are not really clear on how the cat will 
jump once we do have a real bounty on. Hence, I have requested for a 
small scale demonstration so that all concerned can understand.

Do post your views please.
Richie



----[hidden email] wrote ---- 

If you aren't familiar with bounty systems, I suggest looking
atlaunchpad.net.

>
>         https://launchpad.net/bounties
>
> A bounty system is nice in that many people can add small amounts till
> there are enough funds to make it worthwhile for a developer that
> otherwise didn't have enough of an itch to scratch.
>
> I still don't really understand why we don't just use the launchpad
> system.  It would save maintenance and development on some back-end that
> doesn't directly relate to vtiger.  Launchpad also helps communicate
> from the distributions and the project.
>
> Faithi can probably chime in more about the launchpad bounties
> and service.
>
>         https://launchpad.net/bounties/vtiger-universe
>
> Wouldn't it make sense to add vtiger as a launchpad project anyway?
> Just for the added benefit of communication with the distributions (
> debian, Ubuntu, fink, etc) and translation services.
>
>
> Joe





I think you have a good point.   To start with we could use the lauchpad
service as our meeting ground.   If this takes off, then maybe we can look
at creating a system.


We need people to agree to using launchpad, and then we need to set up the
flow of how things would work.   What percentage will the vTiger team get?


Also, using lauchpad, do they have a system in place to place funds in
escrow and hold them until work in complete?   For accepting payment?

Other than launchpad, are there any other suggestions for systems to use?
Anyone?

Jamie
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